Asked by
To ask His Majesty's Government what steps they are taking to
support junior police cadet schemes.
The Minister of State, Home Office ( of Flint) (Lab)
The Government recognise the value of volunteer police cadet
programmes and the role they play in supporting young people and
their communities. The annual Lord Ferrers Awards ceremony is
organised by the Home Office to recognise the efforts of
volunteer police cadets and other volunteers for their local
communities. However, the management of police forces' volunteer
police cadet programme schemes is the responsibility of chief
constables and Police and Crime
Commissioners
(Con)
Given that the relationship between young people and the Met
police is at such a low ebb and that police cadets have a
positive impact on community relations and young people's safety,
what assurances can the Minister give the House that funding
police cadets remains a priority for the Government?
of Flint (Lab)
As I just mentioned, police cadet funding is the responsibility
of the police and crime commissioner and chief constable in each
local area. There is no direct funding from this Government, nor
was there from the previous Government over the last 14 years.
However, we take very seriously the need to support police
cadets; we have a safer streets mission proposing a Young Futures
programme to help establish local prevention partnerships, with
local interventions to help young people who might be brought
into violence get involved in preventive activity. The noble Lord
raises an extremely important point.
(CB)
My Lords, I support the point made by the noble Lord, Lord
Bailey, about the strength and benefit of volunteer cadets. I
appreciate the Minister's point that these are down to local
decisions, but would it be worth the Home Office considering some
kind of target for the number of cadets, as sometimes this can
get lost when there are other priorities? About one in five goes
on to become a police officer or member of police staff, and
about one in three in London is from a minority community. They
get contact with a lot of people and families who might otherwise
not have contact with the Met police. They are worth supporting,
but a target may help.
of Flint (Lab)
The noble Lord makes a valuable point; I re-emphasise that we are
trying to give discretion to local forces, chief constables and
PCCs to determine their priorities. It is a valuable tool, which
involves some people going on to the police. The vast majority do
not, but they are still engrained in community support,
prevention work and, as the noble Lord mentioned, understanding
the role of the police. However, I hope he understands why I
cannot really agree to his point about targets.
(Con)
My Lords, in supporting my noble friend Lord Bailey, I suggest
that it might be a good idea to encourage individuals to join the
special constabulary, as I once did, because that is a good way
of getting people to look to the regular police force as a
career. It would also be a good idea to pay special constables,
as we do retained firemen and members of the TA.
of Flint (Lab)
I agree with the noble Earl that—
Noble Lords
Viscount!
of Flint (Lab)
I am still getting used to this. I agree wholeheartedly about
special constables. When I was last Police Minister 14 and a half
years ago, there were 15,505 special constables in the United
Kingdom; today, there are 6,118. It is certainly something that
we wish to look at and encourage because they play a full role,
but the last 14 years' decline is not down to me.
(LD)
My Lords, the Met said that its decision on cadets was driven by
resource challenges, but part of this problem is that all police
forces are spending vast amounts of their time doing the work of
other agencies, because the other agencies cannot cope with the
demand. I am talking about, for example, looking after children
who are in a dreadful state because they have been taken away
from care. Does the Minister agree that before the situation gets
out of control, we ought to sit down and come to an agreement
about exactly what it is we want our police to do, and follow
that up with a fundamental review of how the police are
structured and resourced?
of Flint (Lab)
I am grateful to the noble Baroness for those comments. She will
know that one of the manifesto commitments of this incoming
Government was to look at how we could improve neighbourhood
policing as one major thrust on this, looking at a very local,
community-based effort based on local requirements to get some
engagement with the police—this goes back to the points made by
the noble Lord earlier in his supplementary question. This will
ensure that we can focus on the community response to policing
issues. We are looking at all sorts of issues now regarding the
reform of policing. When the police Bill comes before this House
and the House of Commons later in this Session, there will be an
opportunity to discuss some of the reforms that we are trying to
make.
of Blidworth (Con)
My Lords, the last Government met their manifesto pledge to
recruit another 20,000 police officers. Does the Minister agree
that to build on that record of success, it would be useful to
improve the conversion rate of police cadets into recruited
police officers? What steps will he take to do that?
of Flint (Lab)
I welcome the noble Lord to his new responsibilities. On behalf
of myself and my team, I ask him to pass on my thanks to the
noble Lord, , for the work that he
did. He was very welcoming to me in my first four months in this
House; I will try to be welcoming to the noble Lord as well.
The noble Lord says that the last Government met their objectives
of recruiting 20,000 police officers. That happened after a
reduction of 20,000 from when I was Police Minister in 2010, and
it happened under the Liberal Democrat-Conservative coalition.
Only latterly did the Government recognise the folly of that cut
and slowly build those forces back up to their right size now. I
agree with him that it would be very good to try to encourage
police cadets to join the force. We want to build on the
neighbourhood policing model, but I think it is a bit
disingenuous on his first outing at the Dispatch Box to claim
20,000 new officers, when this number in fact replaced officers
cut by his Government.
(Lab)
My Lords, first, I declare my interest in that it was—I think—54
years ago that I was a volunteer police cadet.
Noble Lords
Oh!
(Lab)
I would be grateful if the Minister, in expressing his commitment
both to volunteer police cadets but also to the voluntary roles
of special constables, could consider whether there is in fact a
role for the Home Office generally in promoting these schemes—of
course, not abrogating the specific responsibilities of a chief
constable or a police and crime commissioner, but I think it is
something the Home Office could run a national scheme about.
of Flint (Lab)
I thank my noble friend for his question. I find it impossible to
believe that that was 54 years ago; he must have been a very
young man at the time. He makes a very valuable point. We agree
on the importance of the youth cadets, which is why , a former Home Office
Minister, instituted the scheme to welcome and recognise good
cadets. I presented the Lord Ferrers Awards with the Earl in
2009; he was very proud of the awards and should get credit for
them. The Home Office wishes to continue that scheme and that
recognition and will do all it can to encourage people to play
their role as youth cadets, special constables and, indeed,
proper constables.
(Con)
My Lords, almost parallel to the police cadets is the Combined
Cadet Force, which is particularly relevant to the military
services; it faces very similar problems. Given what the Minister
just referred to, will he look at some of the constituent parts
of the police cadets schemes to make them more successful? At the
same time, one should open that up a little more broadly to look
at the rather similar problems that the Combined Cadet Force is
having.
of Flint (Lab)
It is slightly outside my scope of responsibility, but I give
credit to the noble Lord for the fact that the RAF, Army and Navy
cadets are all very valuable. Only this weekend, we saw them
marching and playing a full role in Remembrance services across
the United Kingdom. It is an important point, and I will refer
his comments to the appropriate Defence Minister to recognise his
strength of feeling.
(Non-Afl)
My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register. The
Minister says how supportive he is of volunteer cadets and how
powerless the Home Office is in doing anything about them because
of Police and Crime
Commissioners Is it not time to review the system
of Police and Crime
Commissioners to enable the Government to achieve what they
want with police services?
of Flint (Lab)
I am afraid that is a no for the noble Lord.
(Lab)
My Lords, is it not the case that, after 14 years of cuts from
the Tories and the Liberals, we now find ourselves having to
rebuild the police force? Does the Minister think that the
Opposition should apologise for 13 years of cuts and take the
blame for the problems that we have with our police service?
of Flint (Lab)
I am grateful to my noble friend for his questions. I am very
proud of the fact that, when I was the Police Minister, we had
the largest number of police officers on the beat in the country
ever in the history of policing. That was eroded through
decisions taken by the coalition Government. It was slowly built
back up to its current level by the post-coalition Government,
but they still cannot get away from the fact that they were
responsible for a reduction in policing. Latterly that was
recognised, which is to be welcomed. I want to build on that with
our new neighbourhood policing model over our time in office.
