Asked by
To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and
Development Affairs what his Department is doing to ensure the
lives and security of the children of Gaza.
The Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development
Affairs ( of Chipping Norton) (Con)
My Lords, the best way to address the humanitarian situation is
by ending the fighting as soon as possible. That is why I have
repeatedly said that an immediate pause in fighting is necessary.
UK aid is saving children’s lives. We are doing everything we can
to get more aid into Gaza and have trebled our aid commitment to
the Occupied Palestinian Territories. This includes targeted
support for children through our £5.75 million contribution to
UNICEF. Children are also benefiting from life-saving food,
shelter and health support that we are providing through
partnerships with other UN agencies, NGOs and the Red Crescent
societies.
(GP)
I thank the noble Lord, but surely a pause in fighting is not
enough. We need a permanent ceasefire now. Specifically, I am
sure he is aware of the awful fate of six year-old Hind Rajab,
calling for help in the midst of the bodies of her dead
relatives, who appears to have died with two would-be rescuers
from the Red Crescent. Have the Government demanded answers from
the Israeli Government—or will they—about what happened to Hind,
her family and the rescuers? Are the Government challenging the
Israeli Government on the risks to hundreds of thousands of
children in Rafah who are now in the path of the Israeli
offensive? Surely it is time to stop all arms shipments to
Israel, as a Dutch court has demanded that the Netherlands does,
and implement targeted sanctions against members of the Israeli
leadership, particularly those calling for new settlements in
Gaza and on the West Bank.
of Chipping Norton (Con)
The noble Baroness asks a number of questions. The case she
raises is completely tragic, and what is happening in Gaza is
tragic. We want an end to this suffering and killing. Let me make
this point: we want to turn the pause we are calling for into a
ceasefire, by making sure the conditions are right for getting a
stop in the fighting to mean a permanent ceasefire. The way to do
that is by fulfilling a number of conditions. In our view, you
have to get the Hamas leaders out of Gaza—otherwise, any
ceasefire will not last because the problem will still be there.
You have to dismantle the operation of terrorist attacks. You
have to have a new Palestinian Authority Government in place. You
have to give the Palestinian people a political horizon to a
better future and a two-state solution. Crucially, you have to
release all the hostages—and do that very quickly.
The noble Baroness asks whether we challenge the Israeli
Government over individual episodes. Yes, we absolutely do. I
have done that personally with them, for instance, over a
building that was bombed that had UK medics and other charities
in it. We will continue to do that as part of the very important
process that we go through to judge whether they are in
compliance with international humanitarian law.
(Con)
Is my noble friend aware of any moves by Hamas to protect the
children of Gaza, for instance by releasing all the hostages, as
he just mentioned, or stopping attacks on Israel and the leaders
fleeing to the Gulf? Is he aware of any such moves? I agree with
everything he said.
of Chipping Norton (Con)
My noble friend makes a very good point. It is worth remembering
that on 7 October, 29 children were killed by Hamas and 39
children were taken hostage and remain hostages today. It is
right that we in this House keep asking what else Israel should
do, but at the very same time we should also say what Hamas
should do, which is to lay down its weapons and stop right now.
It could stop this fight immediately.
(Lab)
Is the noble Lord aware that the IDF has suggested that it is in
no rush to enter into Rafah and will delay, possibly until after
Ramadan? Meanwhile, the negotiations in Cairo can continue. That
gives a chance for Hamas to release the hostages and for the
conflict to stop.
of Chipping Norton (Con)
That is absolutely right. I believe those discussions are under
way, and it is a great pity that they did not reach that
conclusion the last time they were under way. As I said, the best
outcome we could seek is an immediate stop in the fighting. Let
us hope that the stop is for as long as possible. I think that
Israel was content to offer a month or six weeks as a pause. Then
we need the momentum to turn that pause into a permanent
ceasefire, without a return to the fighting. That should be our
goal but, crucially, the pause is necessary to get the aid in and
the hostages out.
(LD)
My Lords, the Foreign Secretary referred to UNICEF—
(CB)
My Lords—
Noble Lords
No!
(Con)
My Lords, there is plenty of time. We will hear from the noble
Lord, , followed by the noble
Lord, Lord Green.
(LD)
I am grateful to the Chief Whip. UNICEF has said today that
600,000 displaced children are in Rafah in Gaza. That is
comparable to the entire under-12 population of Scotland being
displaced to one postcode area. Does the Foreign Secretary agree
that for any belligerent in a conflict to advise children and
civilians to relocate, on the pretext of their safety, to an area
where there is no shelter, water or medicine, and where there are
no security guarantees, is a war crime?
of Chipping Norton (Con)
I say to the noble Lord what I said yesterday in Scotland: many
of the people in Rafah have already moved three, four or five
times. It is not possible for them to move again. They cannot go
north because they would be going back to homes that have been
destroyed. They cannot go south because that would involve going
into Egypt, which none of us wants to see and the Egyptians do
not want. That is why it is so important that the Israelis stop
and think before going ahead with any operations in Rafah.
(CB)
My Lords, does the Foreign Secretary agree that the huge number
of civilian casualties in Gaza is deeply damaging to the
reputation of Israel? Will he therefore take action to promote a
change of strategy by the Israelis, as well as the other measures
he has mentioned? Thousands of civilians are being killed; that
has to stop.
of Chipping Norton (Con)
Our view from the start has been that, while Israel has a right
to defend itself and the attacks on 7 October were an appalling
attack on Israel—it is worth remembering that it was the biggest
pogrom since the Holocaust in terms of the loss of life of Jewish
people; we should not forget that—and a tragedy that it had every
right to respond to and try to prevent happening again, Israel
must obey international humanitarian law. Let us be clear: not
only does that involve what the IDF does in terms of the way it
prosecutes this war but, as Israel is the occupying power in
Gaza, it has to make sure that humanitarian aid—food, water and
shelter—is available to people in Gaza. If Israel does not do
that, it would be a breach of international humanitarian law as
well.
(Lab)
My Lords, the Foreign Secretary is right; the priority has to be
securing an immediate, extended pause in fighting to ensure that
we can get aid in and the remaining hostages out, and create room
for a long-term, sustainable ceasefire, followed by an even
longer-term resolution. There are currently almost 1.5 million
displaced Palestinians in Rafah and it is the main route for
humanitarian aid. Any further Israeli offensive in Rafah will be
catastrophic. The situation is getting more urgent by the hour. I
know the noble Lord has been working to establish a contact group
of regional and international leaders who would influence both
sides. Is he able to offer any progress on that group or its
ability currently to influence events?
of Chipping Norton (Con)
At the Munich Security Conference on Friday, there will be a
meeting of the key European countries that help to fund the
Occupied Palestinian Territories and the key Arab and Gulf states
working to help support a future Palestinian Authority. We very
much hope that the Secretary of State of the United States will
be there as well. This is not yet the formation of a contact
group—a number of countries, particularly in the Arab world, are
understandably nervous about meeting in advance of a proper
ceasefire and a plan towards a cessation of hostilities—but I
think we are on the way to getting this group, which the noble
Baroness has long called for, up and running.
It is important, because there are lots of things that we need to
start talking about now—what happens the day after a pause; a
reconstituted Palestinian Authority; the question of how to offer
a political horizon to people in the Palestinian territories; or
indeed how to deal with Israel’s very real security concerns. If
there is a pause and then a ceasefire, how do you make sure that
the people responsible for 7 October cannot remain in Gaza and
that the infrastructure of terror is taken down?
(Con)
My Lords, alongside medical aid on the ground, one practical step
the Government could take with an immediate impact would be to
support medical care for children injured in Gaza on a temporary
basis in the United Kingdom. I know that my noble friend and his
department have been looking at this possibility. I would be
grateful if he could update us on progress.
of Chipping Norton (Con)
I thank my noble friend. It is called Project Pure Hope. We are
looking very closely at whether it is possible to take the people
in greatest need and bring them to British hospitals, as we have
done in the past. The early work we have done shows that there is
much we can do in the region, and we should probably do that
first—for example, helping in the field hospitals that have been
established, helping to send medical teams to referral hospitals
in the region and supporting organisations such as Medical Aid
for Palestinians. If that work leads to the identification of
specific cases in which someone would be better off taking the
long journey to Britain and going to Great Ormond Street or
elsewhere, we certainly do not rule that out. We will continue to
look at this.
Palestinian State: UK
Recognition
Asked by
To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and
Development Affairs what discussions he had with the government
of the United States before his announcement on 1 February that
the United Kingdom should recognise a Palestinian state in
advance of the conclusion of any future bilateral talks between
Israel and representatives of the Palestinian people.
The Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development
Affairs ( of Chipping Norton) (Con)
My Lords, this Government have always supported a two-state
solution, and that remains the case. Clearly, recognising a
Palestinian state at the right time is part of that policy. My
noble friend asked about consulting our allies. Of course, we
discuss all issues relating to the conflict in Gaza, and
Israel-Palestine relations, but I am pleased to tell him that
ultimately the UK has a sovereign and independent foreign policy
set by a British Prime Minister and a British Foreign Secretary
in the British Parliament.
(Con)
I welcome that Answer. Hamas is a genocidal terror group: for the
benefit of the BBC, they are not militants. The Palestinian
Authority has lost control of large cities in the West Bank to
Iranian-backed terror groups, openly pays salaries to convicted
terrorists, and is deeply corrupt and repressive. Palestinian
statehood is, I trust, something all of us in this House wish to
see, but does my noble friend share my very grave concerns that
premature, unilateral recognition of a Palestinian state now
risks rewarding Hamas, playing into Iran’s hands, and perhaps
jeopardising the chances for a long-term, sustainable peace?
of Chipping Norton (Con)
I absolutely understand where my noble friend is coming from. I
just say to him that of course it is not rewarding Hamas. Hamas
does not believe in a two-state solution: it believes in the
destruction of Israel. My point is that the whole point of a
two-state solution is to create long-term, sustainable peace. I
think the last 30 years have shown that we will not solve this
problem without a solution that gives dignity and security to the
Palestinian people as well as vital security to Israel. I say, as
a strong friend of Israel, that this is the right approach and we
should pursue it.
The
My Lords, I welcome very strongly the continued emphasis by the
Secretary of State on the two-state solution, and his
condemnation of the Hamas terrorist group and his call for the
liberation of hostages, as was echoed in a statement this morning
from the Bishops. But it is not only in Gaza that we are seeing
tragedy; we are seeing it in the West Bank, where it is almost
forgotten that very large numbers of Palestinians have been
killed by people who live in illegal settlements. One of the
countries most affected by that is the Hashemite Kingdom of
Jordan. First, what support are His Majesty’s Government giving
to the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, given its vulnerability and
its significant responsibility as guardian of the holy places? If
it comes under significant pressure, that would widen the
conflict appallingly and dramatically. Secondly, what are the
practicalities for Jordan in preparing for or aiding a two-state
solution, where the flow of refugees towards it—and it has taken
something like half its population in refugees—would be a very
threatening process for its destabilisation?
of Chipping Norton (Con)
I thank the most reverend Primate the for his question.
First, he is absolutely right to say that we should focus on what
is happening in the West Bank as well as Gaza. It is a chilling
statistic that since 7 October, 96 Palestinian children have been
killed in the West Bank. There have been a series of very
worrying developments and disturbances. That is why the
Government are focused on this. Only yesterday, we announced for
the first time some sanctions against violent settlers who are
carrying out criminal acts in the West Bank.
The most reverend Primate also asked, rightly, about what we are
doing to help Jordan. First, in terms of the incredible work
Jordan does in looking after refugees, we have given a huge
amount of aid and assistance to help it with the job that it has
done. As he says, the crucial thing is to work with the
Jordanians, as we are, towards the two-state solution, in which
they can play a very big part. A crucial thing that needs to be
sorted out is how you move from the current Palestinian
Authority, which has a number of issues and difficulties, to a
new technocratic Government who would work across the Palestinian
territories. The Jordanians can play a big role in helping to
bring that about.
(Non-Afl)
My Lords, there are 200 land-based conflicts in the world, half a
million dead in Syria, the world’s biggest humanitarian
catastrophe in Yemen, and millions slaughtered in Africa—yet the
only conflict people in the UK seem to want to protest about is
Israel defending itself against the racist, genocidal Islamists
of Hamas. What does the Foreign Secretary think explains this
irrational obsession with the world’s only Jewish state?
of Chipping Norton (Con)
The noble Lord makes a very important point. If you look across
the world and ask yourself, “Where’s the biggest refugee
crisis?”, it is not in Israel or in the Palestinian territories;
it is either in Sudan, where about 9 million people have moved
into Egypt, or you could argue that it is in Myanmar, where
Bangladeshis are looking after millions of Rohingyas in very
difficult conditions. It is important that we try to keep a focus
on what is happening around the world and look at the numbers.
That said, the reason people are focused on Gaza right now is the
level of death and destruction, and people want to bring that to
an end, as do I. This is why we have made this proposal for the
immediate pause, moving to the ceasefire, with the five
conditions we need to put in place to help to bring that about
and work towards a political solution.
(CB)
My Lords, after Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005, Hamas was
elected to power. Having been elected to power, it proceeded to
terrorise and then murder its political opponents. Hamas remains
very popular in Gaza and in the West Bank. How can we prevent an
independent Palestinian state from being governed by Hamas,
maintaining its policy of seeking to attack Israel and to murder,
rape and abduct as many Israeli citizens as possible?
of Chipping Norton (Con)
The noble Lord asks an extremely good question. We have to try to
help to separate the Palestinian people from Hamas. One of the
best ways of doing that, apart from making sure that, as I have
said, our conditions should include the Hamas leadership leaving
Gaza and the dismantling of the terrorist infrastructure, is to
offer the Palestinian people—not Hamas, because it is not
interested in a two-state solution—a route to better governance,
with a reformed Palestinian Authority and the long-term horizon
of a two-state solution to give them the dignity and security
that they crave and that would help to bring about peace in the
region.
(Lab)
My Lords, when the Foreign Secretary made the original statement,
he was very clear that we need to show irreversible progress
towards a two-state solution—something that both sides of this
House have talked about for a long time. My right honourable
friend welcomed the Foreign
Secretary’s comments, arguing that recognition should not wait
for the final status agreement but should be part of efforts to
achieve one. I asked the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, the day after
those comments, what we are doing to translate the Foreign
Secretary’s desire into discussions with our allies, particularly
at the United Nations, and how we give that hope a sense of
reality.
of Chipping Norton (Con)
What my noble friend Lord Ahmad and I are doing—we are virtually
joined at the hip when we are not travelling separately to the
region—is talking to all the partners in the region about how we
work towards making that a reality. Recognition is obviously part
of a two-state solution, and it should help with the momentum.
The point that I have been making is that it should not be the
first thing we do, as that would take the pressure off the
Palestinians to reform and to do the things that need to happen
in the Palestinian Authority. But just because it does not happen
at the beginning does not mean that it must wait right until the
end. One of the things that is beginning to change and that I
think is hopeful is the American posture, which, until now, has
been that recognition can come only when Israel and Palestine
agree on the creation of a Palestinian state. Doing that would
give Israel a veto, in effect, over a Palestinian state, which is
the opposite of creating the sort of unstoppable momentum towards
a two-state solution that we all want to see.
(LD)
My Lords, I welcome the Foreign Secretary’s comments on the
flexibility of recognising the state of Palestine before there is
a full agreement with the State of Israel. I declare that I will
travel to Jerusalem, Tel Aviv and Ramallah from tomorrow night.
What message can the Foreign Secretary share with these Benches
that I can take to those I will meet that he has persuaded
like-minded countries and our allies, who have a long-standing
view that recognising the state of Palestine before any long-term
agreement is the best platform to get an agreement with
Israel?
of Chipping Norton (Con)
After I made my statement, which is absolutely in line with our
long-standing policy that recognition should come when it gives
the maximum impetus and input to a solution, the Americans
announced that they were re-examining their policy and looking at
options to see how recognition could best play a part in bringing
about a two-state solution.
