Extracts from Meeting of the Senedd Culture Committee

Meeting of the Senedd Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport, and International Relations Committee

February 8 2024

The purpose of the meeting was to hear evidence from other legislatures on the subject of culture and the new relationship with the European Union.

Witnesses:

• Baroness Bull, House of Lords
• Eluned Haf, Wales Arts International
• Ruth Cocks, British Council Wales
• Tom Kiehl, UK Music 

Extracts

Baroness Bull:

I need to start by saying, of course, I'm no longer working in the sector, so I am collecting evidence, if you like, in the way that you are. It may have a more personal resonance for me than for some of your committee, although, I don't know, you may have some performing artists there amongst you. So, I'm really trying to be a voice for the sector.6

I think what's interesting about the impact of Brexit is it has uncovered, perhaps, the truth that systems are often set up for big entities, for large corporations. What we see is that freedom of movement within the EU was masking that, because it allowed anybody the full freedoms of membership of the EU, particularly freedom of movement of people and services. Of course, that's particularly impactful for the creative industries, because the creative industries, the cultural sector, are largely made up of small and medium-sized enterprises—small companies, far fewer than 10 people. So, they are hit very hard by the impact of losing that freedom to move across borders.7

I think we see the impact in four areas, and I'm sure we'll go on to talk about them a little bit more: the patchwork of visa and work permit arrangements in the 27 EU countries, which is impacting people's ability just to manage all of that, notwithstanding the cost of it too; the costs of carnets to move goods—to move equipment, really—across borders; cabotage restrictions that mean that trucks can't stop in multiple countries before returning to their UK base; and then CITES requirements, so, the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora, which impacts musicians who have, typically, ivory in the musical instruments.8

What's becoming apparent is that this is having the greatest impact on younger, emerging artists, and this is really because they don't have the resources to withstand the administrative, financial and bureaucratic burdens of making those multiple arrangements. I would say that, of course, this isn't just about economic hits for artists, it's about cultural and creative missed opportunities that impact all of us. I do try to make the point that this is also hurting artists and arts organisations in the EU, not just in terms of the ability to come here, but because of the contribution that UK artists have always made to the EU arts scene, to the music industry there. So, there's a cultural hit, there's an economic hit, there's an opportunity hit for young people. 

Eluned Haf, Wales Arts International:

The first thing to say is that there is a need to look at where data emanates from. I think there is a richness of data available from before we left the EU in terms of programmes and funding and what has been spent in Wales. But, of course, that does not represent the movement of artists, and it isn't either, necessarily, something that is consistent across the four nations of the UK. So, I think there is a need to consider data. Having said that, there are bodies, such as UK Music and the Independent Society of Musicians, that have done a lot of work specifically in regard to musicians across the UK, and, at that point, I think I'll bring Tom in to provide you with more details on the music sector. 

Tom Kiehl, UK Music:

What I wanted to say about Creative Europe, and this is probably looking at it primarily from the more commercial sector than other slightly more subsidised arts—Creative Europe was undoubtedly a good thing and something that should support the sector, and this is, obviously, a very music-specific example—I don't think we made enough of it whilst we were members of the European Union. We did hear of people having trouble accessing it, and that may be just because the way it was designed, in some ways trying to bring some of the other member states to make their music industries maybe more aligned, like the UK one. So, not so much, necessarily, that there's a defined benefit there, but in terms of seeing that it was working properly in the way it could potentially do for the music industry, I do know that there were definitely some frustrations around that area. So, I wouldn't want it to be seen, necessarily, as a kind of panacea, at least for our sector, notwithstanding other cultural and creative arts.162

Just in terms of other Brexit potentials, if you don't mind me—. One area we do annual data on is around music tourism and people coming over to the UK for gigs and festivals. Wales had £218 million to the Welsh economy generated via music tourism, and 30,000 of that was from overseas people. And that has actually increased since the pandemic.

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