Asked by
To ask His Majesty's Government whether they plan to continue the
national £2 cap on bus fares, which is scheduled to end on 31
December.
of Leeds (Lab)
Making fares more affordable for bus passengers is one of the
Government's top priorities, as we know how important it is for
those passengers. The Government are looking at the future of the
national bus fare cap as a matter of urgency and considering the
most appropriate and affordable approach for the future of the
scheme.
(Con)
My Lords, the Minister must know that if a decision is not made
very quickly, almost immediately, the bus companies will not be
able to implement the policy from 31 December. Is this another
one of those questions which is caught up in the pantomime of
chaos in Downing Street? Why should passengers suffer because the
Government cannot make a timely decision?
of Leeds (Lab)
Honestly, I do not recognise any of the pantomime within the
Department for Transport. This is one of its top priorities.
Extra resource is being put into the department to deal with it.
The department knows how important it is that local authorities
working with their partners can deliver this and how popular it
is. But the noble Lord is right that the scheme finishes in
December 2024. The outcome was delayed before the election, but I
can assure him that the department is treating this as an
absolute top priority.
(LD)
My Lords, the numbers travelling by bus outside London have
declined significantly in recent years. As a priority, we need to
get young people back on buses because they need access to those
buses for jobs and education. Does the most appropriate and
affordable scheme that the Minister refers to include a standard
reduced youth fare, or even a scheme for free fares for young
people?
of Leeds (Lab)
The most important aspect in taking this forward is that it is
for local determination. The money going to local authorities is
not ring-fenced; they are able to look at different schemes for
their particular localities. In areas where youth schemes have
been brought in, they have been very successful—look at how
Greater Manchester is moving forward, with an increase in
passengers. I hope we can roll it out across the country.
of Bradford (Non-Afl)
My Lords, can the Minister say if the Government are taking any
particular action with respect to coastal and rural communities?
The noble Baroness remarked that young people need access to
travel to get to work, and yet the infrastructure is completely
destroyed in some of these areas.
of Leeds (Lab)
Rural communities come up all the time when we are talking about
bus services. I have lived in the wilds of the Yorkshire Dales in
the past and I know exactly how important it is. But the
important thing is that local determination can highlight
priorities, and we know how much the bus cap has helped rural
communities over the last few months. This is something that will
be of great concern as we consider how we take it forward.
(Lab)
My Lords, most of the money that comes to the bus companies in
income is derived from the public purse. Will the Minister make
sure that we get value for money for the taxpayers and stop bus
companies ripping us off?
of Leeds (Lab)
My noble friend hits on a very sensitive and important issue.
Value for money must be driven throughout any scheme that we come
up with, and that is one of the top priorities of the work that
is happening as we speak.
(LD)
My Lords, the Minister said that the department was working very
hard to get a solution to this important problem. Can she put a
better timescale on that, given that there are only a few weeks
to go before the current funding scheme comes to an end? Are the
Government holding this for a nice, hopeful announcement on
Budget Day?
of Leeds (Lab)
Of course the Budget is an important consideration as we go
forward, and we know that it is coming up very soon. I assure the
noble Lord that work is carrying on at the moment. More capacity
has gone into the department to deal with this; it knows that the
clock is ticking and how important it is that a decision is
made.
(Con)
My Lords, the previous Government recognised that in rural areas
it is sometimes very difficult to have a traditional bus service.
That is why we invested millions of pounds in demand-responsive
transport. Will the new Labour Government look favourably on that
mode of transport?
of Leeds (Lab)
At the moment, all options are on the table. The noble Baroness
will remember our conversations during Covid about working with
the operators and the local authorities. There are so many
aspects of this, and nothing is off the table. We are looking at
the history and at how we can take things forward.
(Lab)
My Lords, does the Minister accept that, for once, we have had a
sensible suggestion from the Opposition Front Bench? Does she
agree with me that reducing the £2 fare to £1 and extending it,
which would help passengers and bus companies, could very easily
be paid for by taking the £2 billion or so needed from the roads
budget? This would enable the noble Lord who asked the Question
to rattle on again about the war on motorists.
of Leeds (Lab)
I think it is above my pay grade to talk about the outcome of the
Budget discussions that are taking place. This is a critical
moment, with the Budget at the end of October. All these factors
must be taken into account in looking at value for money and how
we can get the best bus services. We must not forget that the
reason we are doing this is for the passengers. Buses are so
important for our communities. They are lifelines for people
going to work and meeting up with their loved ones; they are an
essential service which I am afraid has fallen foul of the price
of profitability in too many cases.
(Lab)
My Lords, will my noble friend try to ensure that, when a
decision is made on what kind of bus subsidy we have, there is a
long-term element to it? It is very difficult for bus companies
and their passengers if the services, frequency and fares change
every few months, as they have done in recent years.
of Leeds (Lab)
I thank my noble friend for that suggestion. I will certainly
pass it on to the department for consideration.
(Con)
Can the Minister confirm that there are no plans to take away
special arrangements for elderly passengers on buses or other
forms of transport?
of Leeds (Lab)
I assume that the noble Baroness is referring to the English
national concessionary travel scheme. We have absolutely no plans
to withdraw it, reduce it or means-test it.
(Lab)
My noble friend said that all options are on the table, which I
welcome. Of those options, would she consider using her influence
to ensure better co-ordination between buses and railways? I can
give her nightmare examples of a lack of co-ordination. It would
smooth things for passengers and improve the use of buses.
of Leeds (Lab)
I completely agree with my noble friend. There is no point in
having a regular train service if passengers cannot reach it by
bus. It is always about the consideration of the last mile of a
journey. If people get into their cars, they tend to stay there.
It is a very important aspect that has been picked up by looking
at the bus open data service. Bus companies sharing their data
has been an enormous problem—anyone in the north of England knows
that that helped prevent us bringing in an Oyster-style ticketing
service across the north. It is crucial that we get this right
and that all companies are obliged to share the information.
of Pickering (Con)
Could I press the noble Baroness further? She has given a very
positive answer on concessionary fares for the elderly, but her
response does not actually give a commitment to continue the £2
fare. Could she give a more positive answer about the timetable
and an assurance that there will be no cliff edge from 31
December this year, particularly for young people and those
living in rural areas who do not benefit from the concessionary
fare, which has played such a positive role in rural
transport?
of Leeds (Lab)
I hope I made it clear that the success of the scheme is well
recognised. We have to look at all aspects to make sure that it
is sustainable going forward and that we do not have to return to
this in the future. So many people depend on this and it is very
popular. Of all the schemes that have come into place, this one
is very well known; the public actually know about it and this
has led to an increase in patronage. People have changed their
habits from using other forms of transport to using the bus. In
my view, it has been a real success.
