3. Patrick Harvie
(Glasgow) (Green)
This week, the First Minister gave clarity on one issue, when he
called on the United Kingdom Government to recognise the state of
Palestine and end arms sales to Israel. However, the same
clarity is needed on the Scottish Government's devolved
responsibilities in relation to Israel's genocidal action
against Palestine.
The United Nations has published a list of about 90 companies
that it considers to be complicit in the illegal settlements that
Israel has been constructing
on Palestinian territory in the west bank. In November, my
colleague asked the former First Minister
to agree that those companies should be banned from receiving
public sector grants and contracts in Scotland from within the
devolved Government's responsibilities. The then First Minister
agreed in principle that no company that is profiting from
occupation should profit in Scotland, too.
It is now seven months and tens of thousands of deaths later,
including those of at least 13,000 children. In the west bank,
hundreds of Palestinians have been killed by Israeli
soldiers and extremists, but the Scottish Government has not yet
taken action to ban companies that are on the UN's list of
complicit companies from receiving grants. Will the First
Minister send a clear signal today by immediately banning those
companies from receiving grants and other support from the
Scottish Government?
The First Minister
()
I acknowledge the seriousness of the issues that Mr Harvie raises
with me. The other day, I indicated that there should be an
immediate ceasefire in Gaza, that the hostages who have been
taken should be returned to their loved ones—to whom they should
have been returned a long time ago—and that arms sales to
Israel should stop. As Mr
Harvie correctly said, I went on to say that I believe that the
United Kingdom should recognise the state of Palestine as an
independent state. That is long overdue, and it would be a
contribution towards trying to stabilise the situation in the
middle east. I hope that Mr Harvie takes from that the direction
of my thinking on the matter and my desire to do as much as I can
to help to resolve the situation from our position.
I will consider carefully the points that Mr Harvie has raised
about any support for companies that are involved in this
activity. Our enterprise agencies have appropriate safeguards in
place to ensure that any funding provided is used only for the
specific purpose for which it is intended. From Mr Harvie's
question, I suspect that he wants me to extend beyond that
protection. On that matter, I would have to take great care to
ensure that we had a legal justification for so doing. If Mr
Harvie and Mr Greer would care to provide me with the material
about which they are concerned, I will investigate and determine
whether the Government can do more. I will, of course, update
Parliament on those investigations.
Patrick
Harvie
I strongly agree with every element of what the First Minister
said that the UK Government should do, but he is not yet
providing clarity on what the Scottish Government should do
within its powers. I mentioned the companies on the list that the
UN deems complicit in illegal Israeli settlements in the
west bank. The First Minister might have been moving on to answer
in relation to arms companies that are provided with grants and
other forms of financial support by the Scottish Government. He
is right that those grants do not support the production of
munitions, but that simply is not enough. If we contribute to
building a bigger bomb factory, we do not get to say that we have
not funded the production of the bombs. Even since 7 October,
Raytheon, BAE Systems and Leonardo have all received eye-watering
sums from the Scottish Government's agency, Scottish Enterprise.
The Presiding
Officer
I must have a question, Mr Harvie.
Patrick
Harvie
This is in a time when the world is recoiling in revulsion at the
appalling attacks, including the most recent attacks against
Palestinians sheltering in Rafah. It is shocking and inexplicable
that, at the same time—
The Presiding
Officer
Mr Harvie, can I have a question, please?
Patrick
Harvie
—as the Scottish Government is calling for an end to arms sales,
it is directly funding those manufacturers. Will the First
Minister change that policy immediately?
The First
Minister
I take seriously the point that Mr Harvie puts to me. I do not
think that the analogy that he strikes about the construction of
a weapons factory is a particularly fair analogy for the support
that we put in place, but I will go away and look at that
carefully.
The point that I was making in my earlier answer is that there
will be a legal basis for us to apply safeguards in relation to
the issuing of grants, but we have to have a legal basis for
saying, for matters that are not related to the Israel-Gaza
conflict, that we are not providing a grant. That is not me being
pedantic—that is simply the legal basis on which the Government
has to act. We must always act within the law, and I must take
the views of the law officers deadly seriously in the actions
that we take. If Mr Harvie would care to correspond with me in
more detail, I will happily explore the issues that he raises,
which I recognise are important and sensitive to people in our
country.
