RFA Sir Galahad Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab) 1. What recent
assessment he has made of the potential merits of publishing all
documents relating to the bombing of RFA Sir Galahad.(902161) The
Minister for Defence People and Families (Dr Andrew Murrison) I
recognise the substantial public and parliamentary interest in this
matter. Consequently, I recently visited the National Archives at
Kew to view the RFA Sir Galahad files. As a result, we are looking
to...Request free trial
RFA Sir Galahad
(Newport East) (Lab)
1. What recent assessment he has made of the potential merits of
publishing all documents relating to the bombing of RFA Sir
Galahad.(902161)
The Minister for Defence People and Families ( )
I recognise the substantial public and parliamentary interest in
this matter. Consequently, I recently visited the National
Archives at Kew to view the RFA Sir Galahad files. As a result,
we are looking to release a further two files, subject to the
Ministry of Defence’s legal advisers confirming that individuals’
rights under the Data Protection Act 2018 would not be
contravened. In relation to the five files of witness statements,
I want maximum transparency, subject to the Public Records Act
1958 and ensuring that personal data is protected. I shall
provide a further update shortly.
On Saturday I attended the first remembrance and reunion event
for the survivors and families of those who were lost in the
attack on the Sir Galahad. I know that the Minister knows
this—and I thank him for his earlier response—but it is deeply
important that the remaining documents from the board of inquiry
are released, so that we can get to the truth of what happened on
8 June 1982. He has told us what he might release, but, for those
who have lived with this for 42 years, can he tell us when we
will have those decisions?
Dr Murrison
I pay tribute to the hon. Lady for the tenacity with which she
has pursued this. I have enjoyed our meeting to discuss the
matter and also the meetings with the Welsh Guards. It is
important that this is handled quickly. We are moving at pace to
ensure that we can do so—with, of course, the caveats that I have
just described.
(Chingford and Woodford
Green) (Con)
I knew people who served in the Welsh Guards at the time—I was
myself in the Scots Guards—and a number who did not come back. I
congratulate the hon. Member for Newport East () on her question. My right
hon. Friend says that he is moving at pace, but the key point is
that it is now decades since this happened. There is now no
question but that some kind of cover-up took place. When he comes
to look at those documents again, can he please ensure that, on
the balance of judgment, we err in favour of opening up so that,
for those who have died and those whose reputations have been
trashed, we can stand up and say proudly that it was not
them?
Dr Murrison
The board of inquiry is quite clear about the attribution of
blame, and the Welsh Guards were absolutely exonerated, and that
is the Government’s position. My position is always for
transparency, and certainly that has been at the forefront of my
mind when I have been looking at these documents.
(Cardiff South and Penarth)
(Lab/Co-op)
I, too, was at the event that my hon. Friend the Member for
Newport East () attended at the weekend. I
was there on behalf of my constituent Colin Silva. Many of those
who did not come back were from the brave Welsh Guards. I have
also visited Fitzroy and seen the location for myself. I was able
to assure the people of the Falkland Islands of the united
support from this House for their defence and security. May I
press the Minister on the timing? Are we talking in terms of
weeks, months or years, because time is moving on and we need
these answers quickly.
Dr Murrison
I will not be drawn on precise times, but it will not be
years.
(Dover) (Con)
My constituent Oliver Richardson, now the mayor of Deal, was just
21 when he survived the sinking of the Galahad. Forty years on,
he says that there is no reason for this supposed secrecy and
that many people neither were offered, nor wanted,
confidentiality in relation to saying what they had seen. Our
armed forces serve us all, and we must honour that service by
giving them and the families of those lost and injured on the
Galahad the answers they need. I urge the Minister to release all
of the Falklands Galahad papers at pace.
Dr Murrison
The Government will do everything we can in the interests of
transparency, but I am sure that my hon. Friend appreciates that
we, like everybody else, are bound by the Data Protection
Act.
Indo-Pacific
(Crawley) (Con)
2. What steps his Department is taking to help ensure stability
in the Indo-Pacific.(902162)
The Secretary of State for Defence ()
The UK is committed to a free and open Indo-Pacific, and we are
putting our regional approach on a long-term strategic footing. I
returned this weekend from Australia, where we have been talking
to our colleagues there, working hard on the Indo-Pacific
programme.
Stability in the Indo-Pacific has been largely aided by the
military base presence on Diego Garcia. What assessment has the
Defence Secretary made of the military base and the island of
Diego Garcia remaining under full British sovereignty, so that we
can help to counter the many threats of the modern world, whether
that be China, Iran or others?
As I think my hon. Friend knows, I share the goal of ensuring
that the base on Diego Garcia remains permanently available for
our use, and for the United States. It is strategically
positioned, it is absolutely vital and there is read-across to
our military facilities elsewhere. It remains safe in our
hands.
(Westmorland and Lonsdale) (LD)
When assessing our ability to influence the stability of that
region, or any other, has the Secretary of State conducted any
kind of impact assessment of the reduction of our investment in
international aid from 0.7% of GDP, or the fact that we have the
smallest standing Army in the United Kingdom for 200 years?
The hon. Gentleman will recognise that I look after the Defence
budget, rather than the overseas development budget, but I think
he will welcome the fact that, because of the Indo-Pacific tilt,
we have ships with a permanent presence there—HMS Spey and HMS
Tamar—and the littoral response group south, which operates in
the Indo-Pacific. We have already sent the carrier strike group
previously; it is going to the region again next year. That is in
addition to the global combat air programme sixth-generation
programme, and of course AUKUS, for which I was in Australia at
the weekend. I think we can all agree that we are doing a lot
more than ever before in the Indo-Pacific.
Mr Speaker
I call the shadow Secretary of State.
(Wentworth and Dearne)
(Lab)
As you did, Mr Speaker, I pay tribute to the Armed Forces
Minister at his last Defence questions. Since the last election,
we have had five Chancellors, four Foreign Secretaries, three
Prime Ministers and two Defence Secretaries, but only one Armed
Forces Minister. He has been a rare constant in the turmoil of
Government, totally committed to defence. We thank him for that
and wish him well.
On the Indo-Pacific, we welcome last week’s updated defence
agreement with Australia, further progress on AUKUS, and today’s
10-year plan for Barrow to support AUKUS. This is our most
important strategic alliance beyond NATO, so why has the Defence
Secretary given the leadership of key parts of AUKUS to the most
junior Minister in his Department?
As I explained, I have just been in Australia talking about
AUKUS. I have previously been to Japan, I think at least twice
but possibly three times, on AUKUS, and to Italy—sorry, not to
Italy, obviously, on AUKUS; that was on GCAP, but with an
Indo-Pacific tilt. I agree with the right hon. Gentleman’s
comments about the Armed Forces Minister, but I am interested to
hear his comments on the Indo-Pacific. Back in 2021, when the
integrated review suggested a tilt to the Indo-Pacific, he called
it a serious flaw in the programme, and urged us not to defocus
from elsewhere in the world.
Support for Veterans
(Blaydon) (Lab)
3. What recent steps Veterans UK has taken to support veterans
and their families.(902163)
(Blackburn) (Lab)
4. What recent steps Veterans UK has taken to support veterans
and their families with the cost of living.(902164)
(Heywood and Middleton)
(Con)
9. What steps his Department is taking to support
veterans.(902169)
Mrs (Birmingham, Erdington)
(Lab)
16. What recent steps Veterans UK has taken to support veterans
and their families with the cost of living.(902177)
The Minister for Defence People and Families ( )
With other Government Departments, the Ministry of Defence
delivers a range of services to our brilliant veterans and their
families. That includes the administration and payment of armed
forces pensions and compensation, the provision of tailored
advice and assistance through the veterans welfare service,
defence transition services and the integrated personal
commissioning for veterans.
A new report from Northumbria University found that suicide among
serving personnel and veterans could be reduced if there was
better understanding within existing care provision of the
specific challenges that they face. The report also found that
military families felt unheard, misunderstood and not cared for
during the most difficult periods of their lives, so what steps
is the Minister taking, alongside our NHS, to deliver
compassionate trauma-informed support for serving personnel and
veterans?
Dr Murrison
I am glad that the hon. Lady has raised that issue. She will know
that we have a defence suicide prevention strategy, which is
reviewed regularly. She will also know that, overall, suicide in
the armed forces is below what we might expect in the civilian
population. There is a sub-group within that—young men—where it
looks as if the rate is going up. We are looking very closely at
that to better understand the reasons for it and how we can
prevent it.
My constituent joined the Army in 1987 and served in the Queen’s
Lancashire Regiment until 1994. During a wrongful operation, he
severed all the nerves in his feet. He is now 52 years old and
suffers from several conditions that leave him in excruciating
pain every day. He was on disability living allowance and then
moved to personal independence payments, but 18 months ago he was
told that he was no longer eligible. Is that really the way to
treat our veterans?
Dr Murrison
I am very sorry to hear about the hon. Lady’s constituent. If she
would like to write to me with the details, I will be more than
happy to take up that case. As I said in my opening remarks, we
work with other Departments, and it sounds as if this is not
principally the responsibility of the MOD, but I would be more
than happy to hear from her about her constituent.
About a year ago, my hon. Friend the Member for Wrexham () undertook an important and
groundbreaking piece of work on behalf of female veterans and
women in the armed forces. Following that, I had the honour of
helping her to set up the all-party parliamentary group on women
in defence, which has given a platform to female veterans and
service personnel, as well as those who work in defence and the
charitable sector, to talk to Members from across the House at
every level. We are very much looking forward to the female
veterans strategy. Can my right hon. Friend assure me that the
Government remain committed not just to equal treatment for women
in the armed forces, but to an equally positive experience for
everyone who chooses to serve?
Dr Murrison
I can absolutely give my hon. Friend that assurance. I pay
tribute to him and to our hon. Friend the Member for Wrexham
() for all their hard work to
improve the position of women in our armed forces. Women are
absolutely central to the way in which defence will be going in
the years ahead, as encapsulated in our target to have our armed
forces be 30% female by 2030—a challenging and ambitious target.
I should mention our improvements to unform policies, mentoring,
flexible service, wrapround childcare, and of course our zero
tolerance for unacceptable sexual behaviour, as examples of
things we have done recently to improve the lived experience of
women in our armed forces.
Mrs Hamilton
At the last census, just over 17,000 veterans were living in
Birmingham, 35% of whom were over the age of 80. Despite pledges
to end veteran homelessness, Government figures show that it rose
last year by 14%, and up to 180 veteran households across the UK
are made newly homeless each month. Can the Minister tell me what
he is doing to ensure that veterans in Birmingham and across the
UK, who made enormous sacrifices for our safety and security, do
not end up homeless?
Dr Murrison
It is plainly not right that anybody should be without a home, be
they a veteran or not. We are doing everything in our power to
ensure that people are set up well for civilian life as they
transition out of the armed forces. The overwhelming majority of
people who leave our armed forces are in precisely that position.
By using measures such as the defence transition service for
those who might have particular problems when they return to
civilian life—as all members of the armed forces ultimately do—we
are ensuring that we minimise the number of people who have
served in our armed forces and are left without a home.
(The Wrekin) (Con)
Is the Minister aware of the excellent work of the Battle Back
Centre in Lilleshall in my constituency, a successful
collaboration between the Royal British Legion and Sport England?
Would he, or perhaps the Minister for Veterans’ Affairs, consider
visiting the centre soon, given that it has treated more than
6,000 serving and ex-service personnel for all sorts of injuries?
The staff there are fabulous and superb, and they deserve a
visit.
Dr Murrison
I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for the invitation, which I
will most gladly take up. I pay tribute to Battle Back, which
does a wonderful job, and to him for his work supporting it.
Dame (Morley and Outwood)
(Con)
Veteran Roy Sagar, a familiar face to us all in Morley, recently
passed away in his mid-90s. He did so much for veterans and the
Royal British Legion locally, and was our parade marshal. Will my
right hon. Friend join me in paying tribute to Roy and all our
unsung hero veterans for all they do, and in sending thoughts and
prayers to Roy’s family?
Dr Murrison
Yes, I very much do so. Our veterans are a wonderful part of our
communities and deserve all the support we can give them. I also
pay tribute to the Royal British Legion, which is always there
for our veterans when they need it—I speak as president of my
local branch. The legion is a powerful institution—I know you
have had a lot to do with it, Mr Speaker—and an important part of
what and who we are, and I pay tribute to it, as well as to my
hon. Friend’s late constituent.
Mr Speaker
I call the shadow Minister.
(Birmingham, Selly Oak)
(Lab)
I appreciate the Minister’s earlier answer, but when Royal
British Legion Industries says that 6,000 veterans are homeless
or in danger of becoming so, is there a need for more urgent
intervention, or is the Minister for Veterans’ Affairs right to
hail getting 500 off the streets as a triumph?
Dr Murrison
I think that getting 500 off the streets is good—it is certainly
a start—but one person without a home is one too many, whether
they are a civilian or a veteran. The important thing is that we
look at factors that might be peculiar to defence that predispose
people to homelessness, because we have a particular duty to
those people in accordance with the military covenant. In
general, as the hon. Gentleman and I both know, people leaving
the armed forces are much better placed for the balance of their
lives in civilian life than their equivalents in civil society,
but that is not the case for everyone. Some people fall through
the cracks, and we must ensure that they are scooped up and
looked after.
Armed Forces Readiness
(Ross, Skye and Lochaber)
(SNP)
5. What progress his Department has made on improving the
readiness of the armed forces.(902165)
The Minister for Armed Forces ()
Mr Speaker, thank you very much indeed for your words at the
beginning of questions. I also thank the shadow Secretary of
State, the right hon. Member for Wentworth and Dearne (). You were both very kind
indeed to say what you said.
The UK armed forces are meeting all of their commitments, but
there is no mistaking that they are very busy, as one would
expect at such a turbulent geopolitical time. People across the
Army, Navy, Air Force and strategic command are working
incredibly hard, and we are very grateful to them and their
families for their forbearance while they do so. The Government
are investing £1.95 billion extra in our resilience and
readiness, but more than investment is needed, which is why all
three services are getting back into the business of being ready
for warfighting. The 3rd (United Kingdom) Division recently
exercised its combat service support echelons for the first time
in decades; the Royal Navy is operating concurrent task groups as
well as forward presence, a test of our naval logistics; and the
Royal Air Force is refining its abilities to disperse the force
through its agile combat employment mechanism.
Of course, we commend the efforts of all those in our armed
services, but the Defence Committee’s “Ready for War?” report
substantiates that our armed forces are constantly overstretched
and are being deployed above their capacity. When are the
Government going to respond appropriately to the scale of the
geopolitical challenges by driving up recruitment and retention
and making sure that we can face the challenges that we see ahead
of us—that we can take them full-on, and are ready for whatever
comes our way?
There is no escaping the fact that the world is incredibly
complicated at the moment. In the Euro-Atlantic, we face the
challenge of Russia; in the middle east, the challenge of Iran
and its proxies; in the Indo-Pacific, the growing competition
with China; and then across Africa and other parts of the world
there remains the challenge of violent extremism. At a time of
such crisis, one would expect the armed forces to be as busy as
they are. That does not mean that we should take for granted the
effort that they are putting in, but if we were not reaching for
them as extensively as we are right now, we would have to
question when on earth we would reach for them, given the demands
on our nation.
(South Dorset) (Con)
I pay tribute to my right hon. and gallant Friend the Minister
for Armed Forces—I am very sad to hear that he is going. He talks
of warfighting. As he knows, I am on the Defence Committee. I
would challenge the idea that we are ready to fight a sustained
war with the armed forces that we have, and bearing in mind all
the threats that we face, that possibility has become very real.
Bearing in mind that his collective responsibility is about to
go, will he now stand at the Dispatch Box and say that we need to
spend a lot more money on defence?
That will go soon, but not yet. Colleagues on both sides of the
House will note that whenever I have been invited to respond to
such a question, like all good Defence Ministers, I have never
missed the opportunity to say yes, but the reality is that our
armed forces remain fit. Yes, it is the job of this House and
particularly my hon. Friend’s Committee to scrutinise our
readiness, as the Committee has done—and I commend the report to
colleagues who have not already read it—but reinvestment is
needed to sustain our armed forces at warfighting level. That is
no scandal; that is the consequence of a peace dividend that
rightly allowed successive Governments to disinvest in the
resilience that kept our cold war force credible. However, as the
Secretary of State so rightly said in his speech the other week,
we are now in a “pre-war era”, so it is the responsibility of
this Government and those who follow to reinvest in the necessary
warfighting capability.
(Warley) (Lab)
The Minister rightly points to the ability to sustain fighting.
He knows that an exercise conducted with the Americans showed
that the British Army would run out of munitions within 10 days.
Battles in Ukraine showed very early on that this would be an
artillery war. Why—I have asked this question of several
Ministers, so I hope that he has the answer—did it take from
March or April 2022 to July 2023 to place the orders for new
munitions? We cannot afford this sort of delay in the Ministry of
Defence.
The contract has now been placed, and it increases our supply of
.155s significantly. I take issue with the point that the right
hon. Gentleman makes: I am not aware of the exercise he referred
to, but in exercises that I have seen, in which the UK has
operated alongside the US, again and again the American senior
commanders have held the UK force elements in the highest
regard.
(Rayleigh and Wickford)
(Con)
As I used to do my right hon. Friend’s job, may I join the
tributes to the outgoing, outstanding Armed Forces Minister?
The “Ready for War?” report just referenced identified problems
with recruitment as one issue that impedes our ability to fight.
The Defence Secretary himself has called our recruitment system
“ludicrous”, and he told The Times earlier this month that
“the ‘Amazon’ generation, which is used to getting things
instantly, were not prepared to wait a year to join the
army.”
He is absolutely right, so when will the utterly ludicrous
“Crapita” finally be sacked?
I am unable to answer my right hon. Friend’s specific question,
but he will be heartened to hear that as a consequence of all
that is going on in the world, and the geopolitical uncertainty
that requires us to use our armed forces so extensively, in
recent months we have enjoyed record expressions of interest in
joining His Majesty’s armed forces. Obviously, we need to make
sure that the time between expressing an interest and starting
training is as short as possible; all colleagues on the Front
Bench perceive the need for that.
Defence Jobs
(North Devon) (Con)
6. What steps his Department is taking to support defence
jobs.(902166)
(Rugby) (Con)
20. What steps his Department is taking to support defence
jobs.(902181)
The Minister for Defence Procurement ()
The most recent estimate shows that the Ministry of Defence
supports about 209,000 jobs in industries across the UK. I am
pleased to say that this figure will be boosted further by the
confirmation last week that BAE Systems will partner with a firm
in Australia to build its nuclear-powered submarines. That will
support 7,000 additional British jobs across the programme’s
lifetime.
Would my hon. Friend agree that MOD procurement from small
British companies in rural areas such as North Devon can
significantly increase defence-related jobs there, and enhance
the local economy, especially when those jobs are in high-wage
research and development and manufacturing industries? Will he
commit to ensuring that the additional high-skilled jobs and
economic benefits resulting from contracts are considered in
future procurement decisions?
That is an excellent point from my hon. Friend, who is a champion
of defence small and medium-sized enterprises in her
constituency. As to procurement rules supporting SMEs such as
those in North Devon, our new integrated procurement model will
ensure that UK industrial capability and exportability
considerations are included in procurement evaluation criteria
for items such as the new medium helicopter. However, to ensure
that we absolutely maximise opportunities for British industry,
on Friday, I announced that we will undertake a rapid review of
how Cabinet Office social value rules impact on the development
of sovereign capability.
The Minister will be aware of the successful export order for
high-value naval electric propulsion technology manufactured by
GE in my Rugby constituency. That order is going to Singapore,
and it was achieved with the assistance of the MOD and the
Department for Business and Trade. Does that not show that
support for this world-leading British technology enables new
business in a fast-developing part of the world, while providing
significant, new, high-value jobs for my constituents?
My hon. Friend asks an excellent question. I welcome the valuable
contribution of GE in his constituency in supplying high-tech
motors, including for Royal Navy ships, such as Type 26 frigates
and Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carriers. It is precisely
because the Ministry of Defence recognises the importance of GE’s
Rugby facility that we were pleased to reach an agreement with
the company in 2019 to ensure that those motors continued to be
manufactured there. Finally, he is right about export. It is such
a key part of our new integrated procurement model, because it
boosts industrial resilience and prosperity in constituencies
such as his, while strengthening international alliances, such
as, in this case, with the people of Singapore and the Singapore
navy.
(Huddersfield)
(Lab/Co-op)
The Secretary of State will know that Huddersfield is a centre
for defence industries; we have David Brown Gears and Reliance
Precision, for example. I talk to them regularly. They say to me
that one of the things that they miss is trained personnel. The
Army, Navy and Air Force used to be the biggest trainer of
personnel in the country. The diminished level of training in the
armed services is reflected in the sector, which cannot get
enough highly trained people to employ.
I am aware of those companies, which do an excellent job
supporting the supply chain, particularly for our primes and for
key programmes, especially naval programmes. I do not recognise
the hon. Gentleman’s description of training. As he will be
aware, defence is the biggest employer of apprentices in the
country. We are doing everything we can to support that. The key
is to have a close relationship with industry, and to bring it
into our requirements early on, so that it can plan and deliver
the supply signal, particularly for skills, to match our demand
signal.
(Tiverton and Honiton)
(LD)
I would like to build on the incisive question asked by the right
hon. Member for Rayleigh and Wickford (Mr Francois). More than
125,000 applicants to the British Army were rejected in the past
five years. It has emerged that 70% of applicants were dropped or
withdrew at the paperwork stage. More than 8,000 withdrew their
applications, having waited for at least six months. What
consequences will Capita face for this record, and when might the
Army bring soldier and officer recruitment back in house?
I encourage the hon. Gentleman to direct questions about
recruitment to the Minister for Defence People and Families. As
to the company the hon. Gentleman talks about, my focus is on
industry and supporting jobs, which the original question was
about. I think we have a fantastic record, boosted by not only
the exports I referred to earlier, but the ones that my hon.
Friend the Member for Rugby () was talking about.
Mr Speaker
I call the shadow Minister.
(Garston and Halewood)
(Lab)
Defence procurement can strengthen UK sovereignty, security and
economic growth. We on the Opposition Benches believe that
defence investment should be directed first to UK businesses, so
that we make, buy and sell more in Britain. With that in mind,
what steps is the Minister taking in his rapid review to ensure
that social value considerations properly take into account the
huge advantages to the UK economy of awarding more contracts to
British businesses, so that we create more defence jobs here in
the UK? That does not seem to happen at present.
I think there is considerable consensus, because I agree with the
right hon. Lady about the importance of sovereign defence
capability, and not just because of the economic benefits,
although those are crucial. As we enter this era, which has been
described as pre-war, it is vital that we have a UK sovereign
industrial base. As the Ukrainians have learned, there are
certain skills and capabilities that we will need in country,
should we get to a hotter military situation, and that is why
that is such a priority for us.
Armed Forces Personnel
(Selby and Ainsty) (Lab)
7. What steps he is taking to end the hollowing out of the armed
forces. (902167)
The Minister for Armed Forces ()
I refer the hon. Gentleman to much that I said in response to the
readiness question earlier, but the key point on this issue of
enablement is that it is the unglamorous stuff that needs to be
invested in first. There is no point buying more tanks until we
have more tank transporters. The Government are seized of that,
and are doing exactly that. This is an opportunity to place on
record, in addition to my gratitude to the armed forces, which I
have mentioned, that tens of thousands of hard-working MOD civil
servants in the MOD main building and around the wider enterprise
are hard at work on this problem right now, and I am grateful to
them for their efforts.
Like other colleagues, I thank the Minister for his years of
service. Since 2010, the size of our armed forces has decreased
by over 43,000 personnel; the number of Royal Navy warships has
decreased by a fifth; more than 200 aircraft have been removed
from service in just the last five years; and recruitment targets
are being missed year on year. Which of those legacies of 14
years of Conservative Government is the Minister most proud of?
What actions could he undertake to do better?
The thing that I am most proud of, beyond the exceptional
operational output of His Majesty’s armed forces every time they
are called on, is that the Government have increased the defence
budget to more than £50 billion a year for the first time. The
hon. Gentleman, whose interest in defence is very welcome indeed,
should be enormously concerned about the shadow Chancellor’s
repeated refusal to commit to anything more than the 2% NATO
floor for defence spending. If his concern for defence is to
last, he should immediately be concerned about the fact that
unless his party changes policy urgently, it will equal a £7
billion cut in defence spending on day one of a Labour
Government.
(Bracknell) (Con)
The question of whether our armed forces are fit for purpose
should centre on whether they can carry out the defence tasks set
by the MOD, and I believe that they can. If I may carry on in the
same vein as the previous response, does the Minister agree that
Labour’s failure to commit to spending more than 2% of GDP on
defence presents a much bigger risk to UK security, objectively,
than any matter of debate among Members on this side of the
House?
Absolutely. We should urgently achieve 2.5% of GDP; the fiscal
situation is improving, and the Conservative party has made that
commitment. As the Secretary of State rightly said in an
interview the other day, both main parties should strongly
consider a further increase in defence spending in the next
Parliament.
Mr Speaker
I call the shadow Minister.
(Garston and Halewood)
(Lab)
As the former Defence Secretary, the right hon. Member for Wyre
and Preston North (Mr Wallace), told the House last January, the
Government have “hollowed out and underfunded” the UK military
over the last 14 years. That is in large part due to their total
failure on armed forces recruitment, and damning new figures show
that over the last decade, 800,000 people who were willing to
serve and defend their country simply gave up and withdrew their
application. The current Defence Secretary says that the
recruitment system is “ludicrous”, and the organisation running
it got called the wrong name by the right hon. Member for
Rayleigh and Wickford (Mr Francois), but where is the plan to fix
this? It is not working.
The right hon. Lady is conflating two separate issues. The former
Secretary of State for Defence and I, and everybody else who has
served on the Government Front Bench since we have returned to
the prospect of state-on-state war, have referred to a hollowing
out of the force. That is a consequence of decisions made not
just by this Government, but by Governments since the fall of the
Berlin wall, because the force that we maintained for the cold
war and all its enablement was not necessary when we were
fighting counter-insurgency campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan.
That is what is meant by hollowing out. The sooner the right hon.
Lady starts to deal with that issue, rather than conflating it
with others to make political points, the sooner she will start
to contribute to an important debate.
As far as recruitment goes, record interest has been shown in
joining our nation’s armed forces, and there is no hiding from
the fact that we need to rapidly accelerate the time between
expressing an interest and being in training.
Mr Speaker
Can we accelerate the questions, too?
Cyprus: Sovereign Base Areas
(Glasgow South West)
(SNP)
8. What assessment he has made of the security of the sovereign
base areas and the armed forces in Cyprus. (902168)
The Minister for Armed Forces ()
The UK continually assesses potential threats to our overseas
territories, including the sovereign base areas on the island of
Cyprus. British Forces Cyprus provides a permanent military
presence, and we are investing in the SBAs to combat current and
future threats, in order to ensure local, regional and global
security.
I thank the Minister for his response. The Secretary of State has
said:
“We want to do everything possible to ensure the security of
Cyprus”.
Does the Minister agree that it would be appropriate to keep the
Cypriot Government informed of all UK military operations
conducted from their island? Should not that be an official
obligation, for the security of Cyprus?
The SBAs are sovereign bases, so of course we reserve the right
to operate from them as needed, based on the UK national
interest. The hon. Gentleman will be reassured to hear that the
Secretary of State, his predecessors, other Ministers in the MOD
and I have very good relations with the Cypriots, and we seek to
tell them as much as we can about operations that we mount from
SBAs there.
(North Wiltshire) (Con)
I would like to add to the warm words said about my right hon.
Friend. He has been particularly supportive of the all-party
parliamentary group for the armed forces, and the armed forces
parliamentary scheme, both of which I chair. Does he agree that
the sovereign base areas in Cyprus have a particularly important
role to play in our activities in the Red sea?
Cyprus is in an incredibly important strategic location, which
means that it is of great use to our operations in the southern
Red sea, as well as in the eastern Mediterranean, the western
Balkans, central Asia and beyond. It is a vital mountain base for
so much that the UK armed forces do. We are incredibly fortunate
to have that facility.
Gaza: Humanitarian Aid
(Ruislip, Northwood and
Pinner) (Con)
10. What steps his Department is taking to assist in the
provision of humanitarian aid to Gaza. (902170)
(Colchester) (Con)
18. What steps his Department is taking to assist in the
provision of humanitarian aid to Gaza. (902179)
(Bradford South) (Lab)
19. What steps he is taking with the Secretary of State for
Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs to increase the
number of aid shipments to the middle east. (902180)
The Secretary of State for Defence ()
There is a desperate need for increased humanitarian support to
Gaza. The UK, including the Ministry of Defence, is working
collectively with allies, partners and international
organisations to deliver desperately needed aid to the Gazan
population.
My constituents are rightly proud of the work that our armed
forces are doing to facilitate the delivery of aid, to prevent a
colossal humanitarian catastrophe. What further steps can be
taken to ensure that British aid finds its way to civilians in
need, rather than into the hands of Hamas fighters?
That is one of the greatest challenges in the current situation.
We are working with the British Red Cross, UNICEF, the UN World
Food Programme, the Egyptian Red Crescent and others to ensure
that aid gets to the right places. That is extremely challenging,
and has slowed down aid delivery.
The Israeli Government have said that they want to “flood” Gaza
with aid. Will my right hon. Friend assure the House that we will
work with our partners globally to get more aid into the hands of
civilians in Gaza, and will assist the Israelis to deliver on
that pledge as soon as possible?
I inform my hon. Friend that we have already delivered 74 tonnes
of humanitarian aid via the RAF, and 87 tonnes through the Royal
Fleet Auxiliary. In addition, we are pursuing land, air and
maritime routes.
With half of Gaza already starving and the rest teetering on the
edge of famine, and the UN Security Council voting for an
immediate ceasefire in Gaza, access to humanitarian aid is
crucial. This month, the Foreign Secretary stated that the UK
would support the building of a temporary pier in Gaza to allow
hundreds of extra daily truckloads of aid into the strip. Will
the Secretary of State outline what steps he is taking, along
with the Foreign Secretary, to ensure that the pier is
constructed as quickly as possible?
The hon. Lady will be pleased to hear that I have sent teams both
to Tampa to work with US Central Command and to the region to
help with planning and constructing that pier. In addition, right
at the beginning of the conflict, I ensured that we did
hydrographic research, to aid in exactly this kind of situation,
when the conditions were right to get a pier built. This is not a
trivial endeavour, but we are working to deliver the pier as
quickly as possible; there is the potential to get 2.5 million
meals a day to Gaza.
(Kingston upon Hull West and
Hessle) (Lab)
The UK Government’s ability to deliver humanitarian aid depends
on the UK’s relationship with its middle eastern partners. What
impact does the Secretary of State think that recent events and
UK Government foreign policy decisions have had on that crucial
relationship with those middle eastern partners?
The hon. Lady will be pleased to hear that the Foreign Secretary,
the Prime Minister and I have been very proactive in speaking to
and making multiple visits to the region. I have visited the
majority of countries in the middle east and Gulf region to
discuss exactly the points that she has raised. There is now a
large-scale programme of using a pier to get food in, in addition
to the many other efforts made. As my hon. Friend the Member for
Colchester () pointed out, the issue is not
just getting the aid there, but then distributing it; that is a
great concern.
Mr Speaker
I call the Scottish National party spokesperson.
(Angus) (SNP)
When will the Government make a further public determination on
Israel’s commitment to international humanitarian law, given the
man-made famine unfolding in northern Gaza, which is compounded
by Israeli moves to obstruct access to aid? If the UK finds, as
the UN Secretary-General, Human Rights Watch and Amnesty
International did, that the Israeli Government and the Israel
Defence Forces have violated international law, what steps will
the UK Government take to prohibit further arms sales to Israel,
pending a resolution of the situation? Given that the Security
Council has just called for a ceasefire, what steps will the
Government take through the defence sector to accelerate all
available aid for civilians in Gaza?
It is a pity to ask all those questions without referencing the
100-plus hostages who are still being held by Hamas, who brutally
slaughtered the population deliberately rather than as a
by-product of war. The hon. Gentleman asks a number of questions.
I can tell him that on arms exports to Israel, an issue for which
I am responsible, it is, to put it in proportion—I think, from
the top of my head—just £48 million for the past year. The
numbers are actually very small indeed. He will know that his
latter question is one for the Foreign, Commonwealth and
Development Office.
Defence Procurement
(Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)
12. What recent assessment he has made of the effectiveness of
the defence procurement system. (902172)
(Barnsley East) (Lab)
14. What recent assessment he has made of the effectiveness of
the defence procurement system. (902175)
(Birmingham, Perry Barr)
(Lab)
15. What recent assessment he has made of the effectiveness of
the defence procurement system. (902176)
The Minister for Defence Procurement ()
The Department uses a range of measures to assess the
effectiveness of defence acquisition. We have reduced the average
time taken to deliver our projects and programmes, but we must go
further to drive pace, so last month I announced our new
integrated procurement model.
The National Audit Office has previously highlighted MOD pilot
training procurement failures, so is the RAF now meeting its
pilot training quotas? Is the Minister satisfied with progress in
that key area?
The hon. Gentleman asks a very important question. Of course,
training is fundamental to bringing in the next generation to man
our capability. I recently had the pleasure of visiting RAF
Valley, where I discussed the issue with the RAF. It was able to
confirm to me that, for the first time in a long time, there were
more students taking up their places rather than in holds. That
is a key metric in which we are seeing significant progress, but
yes we want to go further.
Last March, the Government said that they would have their Ajax
scheme ready between October 2028 and September 2029. Given that
only 25% of armoured vehicles have been produced, are the
Government on target to meet that deadline?
Yes.
Mr Mahmood
Notwithstanding the waste of £5 billion in procurement since
2019, will the Minister join the shadow Secretary of State for
Defence, my right hon. Friend the Member for Wentworth and Dearne
() in a campaign to make in
Britain, ensuring our industry and economy move together to
support not just our defence, but our economy? How will he
achieve that given that Tata Steel—to which we have paid £500
million —is cutting down its blast furnace capacity? How will we
be able to proceed with the AUKUS contract and other contracts
without virgin steel?
On the important question of steel, we do not expect the closure
of Port Talbot to have a significant impact on defence, but
obviously we will continue to monitor that situation. I would
just gently point out that in 2022-23, the last year for which we
have figures available, 89% of spend by the MOD with industry was
with British industry. It will be an awful lot harder to make
that level of spend if Labour is unable to commit to matching our
spending commitments. If the hon. Gentleman is so concerned,
perhaps he will join other colleagues on the Labour Benches in
insisting that the shadow Secretary of State confirms whether he
will match 2.3% of GDP now and our target of 2.5% as soon as the
economy supports it.
Sir (Elmet and Rothwell)
(Con)
May I take this opportunity to also place on record my thanks to
the Minister for Armed Forces, my right hon. and gallant Friend
the Member for Wells () for all the work he has
done? It was a joy to work with him when I was in the
Department.
I thank the Minister for Defence Procurement for his procurement
review. It is an excellent document, moving forward in a
pragmatic way. As part of that review, will he reassess where
potential gaps might occur between old platforms being retired
and new platforms being delayed? Does he agree that housing
procurement—accommodation for our armed forces—is as much an
operational capability as a tank?
My right hon. Friend makes an excellent point. He made a similar
point in the debate on readiness last week about the importance
of accommodation. I think we can all agree that there is a
tendency in defence to focus on the big shiny platforms.
Accommodation is a key priority; we are very committed to
improving accommodation. We know that in the winter before this
one performance was not satisfactory. That is why we put in extra
investment of £400 million and announced a winter plan. I am
pleased to say that we have made huge progress, for example in
ensuring that thousands of properties have work achieved on damp
and mould.
(North East Hampshire)
(Con)
I am delighted that the MOD has confirmed the procurement of
additional Chinooks, given that RAF Odiham, in my constituency,
is the home of the Chinook force. However, it is also home to the
fleet’s frontline maintenance, second line engine repair, and
in-depth upgrade and modification. Given that 85% of the Chinook
fleet sustainment takes place in the UK today, can I have my hon.
Friend’s assurance that RAF Odiham will remain the home of the
Chinook, and that there will be a similar, if not higher, level
of maintenance of the new variants here and across Britain?
I greatly enjoyed my visit to Odiham, where my hon. Friend and I
discussed a wide variety of issues. He is right to draw attention
to our commitment to the procurement of 14 extended-range
Chinooks—they have a huge range, of 1,000 miles—but there is also
the industrial benefit to the UK and, of course, to my hon.
Friend’s constituency. I can confirm that not only has that
procurement made us a £300 million saving, but it will contribute
£150 million-worth of benefit to the UK’s prosperity.
(Filton and Bradley Stoke)
(Con)
Will my hon. Friend update the House on progress made with
UK-Ukraine defence manufacturing co-operation, especially with
regard to removing the hurdles? Is there anything more that the
Government should be doing?
My hon. Friend has championed this matter consistently. I am
pleased to say that we held the first UK trade mission in
December, and that there will be further such missions. I can
confirm most importantly that, following that mission, UK defence
companies and the Ukrainian Government have signed the following
agreements. Babcock has been being awarded a three-year contract
by the Ukraine ministry of defence to support and maintain two
mine countermeasure vessels; BAE Systems and AMS Integrated
Solutions have signed an agreement that will enable them to offer
specialised artillery systems support directly to the Ukrainian
armed forces; and Thales has signed a memorandum of understanding
with the Ukrainian drone company AeroDrone, which will bring
together the best of Ukrainian and Northern Irish engineering to
deliver new capability to Ukraine’s forces.
Mr Speaker
I call the Scottish National party spokesperson.
(Angus) (SNP)
Procurement of the new medium-lift helicopter has been
characteristically suboptimal under the present Government, but
this particular Defence Procurement Minister has managed, with
his inverse Midas touch, to ensure that costs have grown from
about £1 billion to £1.3 billion, delivery forecasts have slipped
six delayed years to 2031, and the number of assets to be
received has fallen from 44 to 35. Given that the forecast will
inevitably slip to the right, service personnel will be
under-resourced and the budget will almost certainly grow, what
possible confidence can anyone have in this Defence Procurement
Minister?
I will take no lectures from the hon. Gentleman, whose party has
been unable even to procure a ferry. [Hon. Members: “It says
here!”] I know the subject, and I can confirm to him, because I
am very proud of this, that at my insistence our competition for
the new medium helicopter will involve a far greater emphasis
both on supporting UK industry and on supporting exports. It is
by supporting exports that we secure industrial resilience and
support for prosperity across the United Kingdom. Of course it is
a competition, but we have three very good entrants.
Topical Questions
(Amber Valley) (Con)
T2. If he will make a statement on his departmental
responsibilities.(902187)
The Secretary of State for Defence ()
Like others in the House, I pay tribute to the Minister for Armed
Forces, my right hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Wells
()—soldier, MP, and Minister
during almost the entire Parliament. His knowledge of this
subject is matched only by his great passion for it, and we are
all very grateful for his service.
Last week I was in Australia, signing an historic defence treaty
to enhance our Indo-Pacific security, and meanwhile our
trilateral AUKUS partnership with the United States is
accelerating. As the House will know, ASC and BAE Systems have a
multibillion-pound contract for the SSN-AUKUS. Earlier today the
Prime Minister and I launched our very first nuclear defence
Command Paper, which will set out the true benefit of this great
enterprise, making it a wholly national effort.
I welcome the publication of the Command Paper, and in particular
the important role played by Rolls-Royce in Derby, but does my
right hon. Friend agree that for this to be a truly national
enterprise, there must be a truly national supply chain and
access to jobs for people throughout the country?
My hon. Friend is right about the extent of the supply chain. In
addition to the very large investment in Rolls-Royce, to which
the Australians contributed £2.4 billion last week, and all the
work in Barrow that is described in the Command Paper, there are
benefits for virtually every constituency in the country.
Mr Speaker
I call the shadow Secretary of State.
(Wentworth and Dearne)
(Lab)
We condemn the deadly terrorist attack in Moscow on Friday, and
our thoughts are with all those affected, but the attack must not
become a Kremlin cover for Putin’s illegal war in Ukraine. In
recent days, we have seen multiple Russian strikes on Ukrainian
cities, yet the last UK air defence support was announced last
year. When is the next one?
I join the right hon. Gentleman in sending our condolences
following the horrific terror attack. He is absolutely right to
say that we are aware of no connection whatsoever with Ukraine;
indeed, ISIS has claimed responsibility. We must resist Putin’s
efforts to try to link the two.
With regard to air defence, there have been much more recent
attempts to aid our Ukrainian friends, including through the
International Fund for Ukraine, which has laid 27 contracts. We
have a £900 million fund, run by the UK on behalf of a large
number of other countries.
Of course, anything more recent was from the International Fund
for Ukraine, not the UK, which is why we strongly welcomed the
£2.5 billion of UK military support for 2024. However, for nearly
three months since that announcement, Ministers have said that
the first deliveries to Ukraine will not happen until Q1 of the
new financial year. Wars do not follow financial years, so when
will the UK move beyond this stop-start military aid and help
Ukraine with the spring/summer offensive?
I can tell the right hon. Gentleman that we have a constant flow
of foreign materiel that we are buying and sending into Ukraine.
I recently announced £325 million for British-Ukrainian drones,
and we have increased the overall amount of money going to
Ukraine from the previous two years’ £2.3 billion to £2.5
billion. I gently say to the right hon. Gentleman—this has been
raised by a couple of my colleagues today—that he needs to
explain how the Opposition would manage an increased budget for
Ukraine, when their plan is to cut £7 billion from the overall
defence budget.
(South West Bedfordshire)
(Con)
T3. An Army non-serving partner says of her children’s mental
health treatment: “When you move, they close the case, and then
you have to go all the way back through the system, which takes
forever. By the time you get in, you are moving again.”Can my
right hon. Friend please give the House an update on
recommendations 74, 75 and 76 of the “Living in our Shoes”
report, which deal with this issue?(902188)
The Minister for Defence People and Families ( )
I am grateful to my hon. Friend and, as ever, pay tribute to him
for the work he has done in this area. It is the case that when
people move around the country, they are disadvantaged. We
recognise that, which is why integrated care boards are now
running a pilot scheme on how we can get around people losing
their places on waiting lists when they travel around the
country. Obviously, the issue involves other Government
Departments too. Nevertheless, we have a responsibility, which we
discharge in a number of ways. For example, HeadFIT is being
adapted and adopted at the moment to ensure that our veterans and
service families are able to access much of its content.
(East Lothian) (Alba)
T5. The Government have previously refused to confirm or deny
whether Israeli F-35s have been using RAF airbases or, indeed,
other military co-operation between the UK and Israel. Given the
decision of the International Court of Justice, and now the
decision of the UN Security Council to call for an immediate
ceasefire, what are the operational or policy reasons that deny
UK citizens the right to know whether their Government have been
complicit in Israeli genocide in Gaza?(902190)
The Minister for Armed Forces ()
We do not comment on operational matters of that sort.
(Buckingham) (Con)
T4. Qatar hosts Hamas’s most senior leaders in Doha, and should
have been applying far more pressure on the terror group to
release the Israeli hostages and to surrender. Does my right hon.
Friend agree that Qatar’s malign activities bolster our
adversaries and therefore weaken our own defence?(902189)
I am not entirely sure that I do agree. I will leave the Foreign
Office to talk about the diplomatic angles that it is pursuing,
but in my experience, Qatar has been an incredibly helpful
partner across a whole load of things over the past few years. We
enjoy the opportunity to strengthen that partnership, both
through the sale of UK-built defence capabilities and through
increasingly operating together in areas of mutual concern. It is
a relationship on which the UK can build further, and has great
potential.
(City of Chester) (Lab)
T6. HMS Albion is twinned with Chester, and we deeply value the
ship and her company. Can the Secretary of State provide the next
date on which HMS Albion and HMS Bulwark will be at sea, or will
he just admit that he has mothballed them both?(902191)
The hon. Lady be pleased to know that I was on HMS Albion the
other week and that she has not been mothballed. The other ship
will be the first to sail—I do not know the timing, as that will
depend on operational requirements—but they are both continuing
in operation.
(Sedgefield) (Con)
Like many colleagues across the House, I attended the all-party
parliamentary group for UK-Israel and Friends of Israel event. We
were joined by two released hostages and a delegation consisting
of young siblings, sons, daughters, grandchildren and cousins of
those being held hostage in Gaza. It is now five months since the
hostages were taken, so will the Secretary of State ensure that
those victims remain right at the front of his mind in all
decisions that are taken on the middle east?
My hon. Friend can absolutely have that assurance. It is shocking
to see what is happening in the region, but it is too often
forgotten—including in this House today by some Opposition
Members—that this all began with the taking of those hostages. We
will never forget.
(Linlithgow and East Falkirk)
(SNP)
T7. Pension justice is on everybody’s lips just now, so can the
Minister tell me what this Government have done to support the
30,000 veterans who left service before 1975 and who have lost
out on preserved pensions?(902193)
Dr Murrison
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his question. As he knows
very well, consecutive Governments have made it plain that we do
not make changes to pensions retrospectively. As for pensions for
the armed forces overall, Mr Speaker, you will know, as I do as a
beneficiary, that they are equitable, fair and generous.
Dame (Gosport) (Con)
The 2016 better defence estate plans earmarked Fort Blockhouse in
Gosport for disposal, yet eight years later after numerous
delays, the site is still rotting at the taxpayer’s expense. It
is doing nothing for the local economy, the local community or
the MOD. Will the Minister please update me on when can we will
finally see some progress on that site?
The Minister for Defence Procurement ()
I enjoyed my visit to my hon. Friend’s constituency, where we
looked at a range of infrastructure and accommodation. I
appreciate that she wants to see progress, but I stress that
while we are engaging as closely as possible with Gosport Council
on this and want to make progress, it is a complex site with
significant defence events assets still in place relating to the
Defence Infrastructure Organisation and the Royal Navy. I am
committed to looking at what more we can do and to engaging
further with her.
(Newport East) (Lab)
T8. Tens of thousands of pregnant women in Gaza are suffering
from malnutrition and are at serious risk of delivering their
babies unsafely and without healthcare. Will the Secretary of
State outline what steps he is taking, along with the Foreign
Secretary, to support the delivery of food and medical supplies
to those particularly vulnerable women?(902194)
We are working to try to bring supplies to all the citizens of
Gaza. I did not run through the list of provisions, but it does
include provisions for those in medical need, particularly women
who may be pregnant. As I mentioned, we are working on plans with
the Americans in particular, but also with the Jordanians, to
provide vastly greater amounts of aid into Gaza.
(Bournemouth East) (Con)
The terrible terrorist attack in Moscow reminds us that jihadi
extremism has not disappeared. Given its ideology, its reach and
its strength, does the Secretary of State agree that ISIS-K is
just as much of a threat to the west as it is to Russia?
My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. There is a perception
that Daesh has gone away. The Daesh core is cooped up in prisons
in northern Syria, but Daesh affiliates are growing alarmingly
quickly in other parts of the world. The attack in Moscow is a
reminder to us all that we must continue to focus on the
counter-terror threat as well as on the state threat.
(Barnsley Central) (Lab)
T9. May I wish the Minister for the Armed Forces all the very
best for his next posting? He will recall that on 1 February he
made a commitment to reassess the Afghan relocations and
assistance policy eligibility, specifically for former members of
the triples, and said that the process would take 12 weeks. Will
he update the House on what progress has been made on that work
to date?(902195)
It is disappointing to finish on a down note, but as the hon.
Gentleman knows from a written answer that I gave him last week,
it has taken longer than I wanted to establish an independent
group of new casework assessors, and that 12 week period has
therefore not yet begun. I was told by officials, when I
reluctantly signed off the answer to him last week, that that
process was nigh-on complete and that the 12-week period should
therefore start imminently. He will not be surprised to learn
that, pre-empting his question, I have encouraged them by
suggesting that eight weeks would sound an awful lot better than
12, given the delay in getting started.
(Angus) (SNP)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. At Defence questions on 8
January, I asked the Defence Procurement Minister a very
straightforward question about HMS Argyll—the type of question to
which I would expect him to have an answer at his fingertips.
Instead he said, as quickly and as curtly as he could, that he
would write to me with an answer. It is almost three months
later, and I regret to inform you and the House that I have
received no such information from the Defence Procurement
Minister, and neither have I received an acknowledgment that he
intends to write to me.
May I ask your advice, Mr Speaker? When right hon. and hon.
Members have a slippery Minister on the hook and that Minister
chooses to wriggle off it by promising to write, what recourse do
we have when the Minister does not write?
Mr Speaker
First, I think we ought to choose our language when we want a
response. I have a lot sympathy and, although the point of order
does not relate to this Question Time, I will give you the
benefit of the doubt because this is an important matter. As you
are a senior Member of the SNP and have been its spokesperson, I
expect you to get timely replies. I do not expect replies to take
so long. I am sure that those on the Treasury Bench have heard,
and I would expect a response to be sent rather quickly following
this point of order.
|
